Before You Retire, Discover Your NEXT!

Scott Schaper: Welcome to the Spirit Health and Hustle podcast. Appreciate everybody joining us in this episode. Brian and I chat with other than Jeff Hustle. Jeff is a dear friend and mentor to both of us, has been our Vistage chair for six years. Jeff sold his company and we'll hear his story of how he went on to become one of the most successful and respected Vistas chairs in the nation. I look to hearing details of journey ⁓ from a manufacturing company to his own version of what's A lesson.

Brian McMaster: Welcome to the Spirit Health and Health Health podcast. Appreciate everybody joining us in this episode. I'm dear friend of the metric. Six years. the ⁓

Scott Schaper: a lesson he drives home at so many Vistage meetings. We're gonna have a fun conversation about how many business owners, present company included, spend all their time trying to achieve that perfect exit never or rarely enough thought goes into the entrance into some version of retirement. We'll about how retirement can leave a void that needs to be filled through hobbies, volunteering, or even new career paths. We'll discuss to maintain the platform you've built for decades, ⁓ maintaining social so they don't disappear. when retirement begins, so let's not waste any time and get into it. Start with some quick introductions and we'll start with my co-host, Brian McMaster. Hey, friend, how's it going? Where are you and where do you work?

Brian McMaster: So Kansas City, Missouri, M &M Quality Solutions were a integrator, I classically classily is classily a word. Took or added in to avoid the three PL drama.

Jeff Hutsell: classily.

Scott Schaper: Yeah, classily.

Brian McMaster: So, but we're a third party logistics provider. A mini Amazon. Yeah, that's it. Right there. I love it. And of course, my name is Scott Schaefer with marketing.

Scott Schaper: A mini Amazon. And of course, name is Scott Schaper with RSM Marketing. do nationwide marketing for construction companies, contractors, and GCs. last but not least, Jeff Hutzel. Take a few minutes to go into your business history. Give us the 60-second version of how you got here.

Brian McMaster: Please do not zoom.

Jeff Hutsell: few minutes or 60 minutes, I can go 60 minutes. Hey, I'll go backwards. This is my 15th year as a Vistage Chair. A Vistage Chair is a name of a company a lot of people never even heard of. Basically, we pile together groups of 15 to 20 CEOs and business owners and share our lives and our stories and our success and our failures and our challenges and... ironically end up becoming great friends as well. just kind of the ringmaster and over time I'm trying to decrease my value so that the group increases their own value because 20 people are a lot smarter than any one person can be. Prior to that, I've been an entire career in consumer products. Primarily, I say it's products that nobody needs, but everybody seems to want. We called it social expression. comes, I started out at Hallmark Cards, where basically you're just trying to tell people how you feel about each other, right? Because we, a group, have a hard time communicating how we feel about each other. So I've been in that business forever. I was at Hallmark, I was at the Franklin Mint, I was at the UNESCO.

Scott Schaper: Yep.

Jeff Hutsell: If you have mothers ask them about precious moments, they'll know what that was. And I ended up with my own company called Levels of Discovery, which described my philosophy as it relates to product development. If there's only one level of discovery, people are going to ask how much it is. If there's 10 levels of discovery, they're very curious and they to keep knowing more. So it was children's furniture, rocking chairs, grandparent bait. Had that for about 13 years before I got started with Vistage.

Scott Schaper: Hmm.

Brian McMaster: Thanks.

Scott Schaper: So a couple questions. Was Vistage just the very start, was it a purposeful or a pleasantly accidental career next for you? Did you decide to like this is what it is or do you stumble into?

Brian McMaster: that's a career for you.

Jeff Hutsell: It'd be the second, as most of us do. Ninety-five percent of what happens in life happens to us, not because of us. I ran across an ad, tell you how old I am, in the Wall Street Journal that said, would you like to become a leader of leaders? And I go, hell yes, that's This Vistage I didn't even know how to pronounce it. ⁓ Vistage, out in California. ⁓

Scott Schaper: Okay. Vistage.

Brian McMaster: I'm so sad.

Scott Schaper: Jeff is being a little bit modest. He's talked about 20 people in one group. How many groups and how many people do you lead?

Brian McMaster: heard about the deafness being a little bit modest. We talked about 20 people.

Jeff Hutsell: I've currently got seven which adds up to about 135 people. ⁓

Scott Schaper: Well, there's no more room in the week for another group or another person, is there?

Brian McMaster: or we'll wait for another group or.

Jeff Hutsell: Well, it seems like there's always room one way or the other. But what happens...

Scott Schaper: Yeah. So speaking of retirement, why can't we just, you know, we've been, we've been at it for 40 years. We engineered this thing. We finally got the check. Why can't we just sit back, relax, golf, read, play cards, coffee and watch Netflix? What's the harm in that?

Brian McMaster: Thank drink coffee and watch Netflix environment.

Jeff Hutsell: It works great for a couple hours. reason we don't ⁓ one, we feel like we can't. Two, we don't know how. And three, like anything in life, I call it the Tarzan theme. Do not swing on a vine and let go until there's another vine to grab onto. So the great of if you walk away from your current business where you have identity, fame, glory, ⁓ whatever it is, nothing, that's a fast drop.

Scott Schaper: Hmm.

Jeff Hutsell: and it's really dangerous for people. So a lot of people are afraid of that.

Scott Schaper: What are some, Brian, any questions for Jeff regarding this?

Brian McMaster: regarding this, but I have one later on ⁓ a burning question

Scott Schaper: Okay. So as you mentor people, have you found surprising about people's version of their next? ⁓

Brian McMaster: about people's versions of their day.

Jeff Hutsell: They're ⁓ staying very far out. My people typically have started their companies in many cases, or certainly grown in their companies, which means operators. Operators deal with next. They don't deal with what the future is. So strategy is hard. Long distance planning is very hard. So no time to do it because there's always something to solve right now.

Brian McMaster: people.

Jeff Hutsell: And that's appealing to us.

Scott Schaper: What have been some successful, like interviewed Janine Akers on this. She went from operator, took a break, to more operating. Is that typical to start another company? Or what have been some successful answers to the question?

Brian McMaster: successful. successful answers to the question.

Jeff Hutsell: Successful. A lot of successful exits, ⁓ they're relatively new, like within the last three to four years. So a lot of them have not really been able to find exactly what's new. They're trying things. So the first six months to a year is what you said. Let's go travel. Let's do this. Let's do what I like. Let's do that. What they have to discover is what their second growth curve is. ⁓ And

Brian McMaster: successful. I'm a successful pixie. once they were their final phase. So six months to a year is what you said. Let's go. have to discover is what their second clue is.

Jeff Hutsell: when you're ready, that's all based on a book that I live for. And I'll that to you later.

Scott Schaper: Mm-mm. Yeah, when I think about Raudibush from Acrofire and Lindtac, Mark, they're still in their window after their exit where they're in for to five years. And so it's not a to the social system. They just operate with a different ⁓ paycheck signee to a certain extent.

Brian McMaster: system, they just operate with a different paycheck setting to a certain extent. ⁓

Jeff Hutsell: But what starts to grow their inability to deal with the day-to-day crap. It goes from like, ⁓ this is fun. This is other people's money. This doesn't worry me. Okay, I'm a little bit bored. I got nothing to do. Okay, I'm coming in at 10. And so I think it starts fading out. And trying to help them not fade to black, but fade to something exciting and new, new technicolor.

Brian McMaster: Jeff, what drives you though? Because I know just in my own experience with you when I came in I was this silly little guy that really didn't know how to run my company. I'm sure you deal with all walks, right? You deal with people who know everything and don't listen. And you deal with people who are very coachable. So what? what keeps the motivation going for you? know, I mean, it's thing to think about retirement and, you know, all that kind of stuff, but it's another thing to say, I get up every day for this. ⁓

Jeff Hutsell: Yep. I'll an advertisement to this book. It's called From Strength to Strength. It's by a fellow named Arthur Brooks. The best way to answer your question, and it really helped me a lot. There's two types of intelligences that we go through in our life. The first one, you two fellows are still in, is called fluid intelligence. We're learning, we're growing, we're accumulating experience, we're listening to mentors, we're reading books, we're doing podcasts. ⁓ base and experiential base is going from zero to a hundred. That goes until we begin to tire. When you begin to tire, you don't really care about adding intelligence every single minute of our life. All my Vistage members talk about the number of podcasts and books they read. My number has shrunk almost 80%. I don't need to, I don't want to accumulate any more knowledge. I'm moving into what he calls crystallized intelligence. That's the second phase of life. The curve. It increases with age, it requires wisdom. and it responds best as being a teacher and a mentor. In other words, all the stuff that I've accumulated... rather than working on tasks for it, it becomes like this library. Brian comes in with a problem about a manager that does something. I'm searching my hard drive, six things come to mind, or five or six people come to mind who can help on that situation. And I love spitting that out because when you say, wow, Jeff, that really helps. Now I know what to do. That's my new win. The old win used to be I figured it out. it, I rock. I don't need to figure it out. I don't need to do it. I need to get you to do it. When you do it, tell me. That's the new paycheck. So when I learned that, they actually call it, there's two curves in your life. And you see the guys that stay in this curve as they do this. They can't leave the business. They can't leave the athletics sport. They play three years too long, right? They're the ones that are losing that fluid intelligence and they haven't picked up on the, let me show you how to be a great quarterback. Let me show you how to be they turn into a coach. That changed everything for me.

Brian McMaster: That's amazing. That's good. Yeah, yeah, it does.

Jeff Hutsell: Make sense? And it's really two different kinds of rewards. They're equally and they're equally great. I don't have to run. I don't have to make another damn dollar in business. I don't have to make a completely change.

Scott Schaper: Mm-hmm. So the reward system changes, obviously, and we go from just gathering, stowing away, hoarding, building up to this moment. And we don't have a really good muscle memory around spending, letting go, giving away. And that's what you're doing. It could be money, could be mental. ⁓ that's a mindset shift. That's really important. I love that.

Brian McMaster: That's what you're doing. could be money.

Jeff Hutsell: But for odd. What's the biggest is he tells me to go create a reverse bucket list. Stop accumulating what you want to do. Start ⁓ the shit you don't need to do anymore.

Brian McMaster: of that.

Jeff Hutsell: So my bucket list is I want to get rid of these five things that I used to do all the time that I'd never really liked, but I'm not going to do it anymore. I'm going to do this. I'm going to do that. Tom Raudibush is a great example. He went to work at 7 15 every morning for 40 years. His greatest joy is bragging about going into work at 10. In the beginning, it was quiet with guilt. And now it's screaming with pride. Fuck yeah, I go in there at 10 o'clock in the morning. And it's great. we're all on the reverse bucket list. What can we get rid of? And we're now accumulating new things. And listen to the list of things you want to accumulate. This is called deathbed accumulations. I start deepening my relationships. I don't have you guys as clients. I have you guys as friends, sons. Nephews, mean, I really give a shit right because I want those relationships to be there I'd like to have a you know, if I can't do this anymore If well, let me just say it this way every business that I left and sold the day I left or sold it I was gone From the lives of everybody there from no matter how critical I once was I was nothing My dream is that when I leave this, people will still stop by or give me a holler and say, hey, what's going on? What's up? Because the relationship is not based on the misdage relationships. It's based on the Scott-Jeff Brian-Jeff relationship. So the deepening of relationships, what people find that don't do that is once they've left their work, their identity and their friends are gone. They have nothing. So they start doing that.

Scott Schaper: Great.

Brian McMaster: Thanks, sir.

Jeff Hutsell: They draw them onto their wives or their children to become a pain in the ass. Because the wife and the child, women do a much better job than we do. They have many more groups. We suck at groups. I think that's why people, there's people that sell companies that they invest in groups. It's like, know why? They don't have any groups. Yeah, Brian has his Alaska group. mean, it's like, there are a lot more than just going to Alaska now.

Scott Schaper: Yeah. It's their group.

Brian McMaster: It's the ROOB.

Scott Schaper: Yeah. Okay. We'll take a break. It's five minutes in our 15 minutes in. Jeff, you kind of got a jump on us here. You cheated a little bit. We always recommend a book or a product that we're right in the middle of, or right that we're just finishing up. And I think we count strength to strength, strength to strength, strength to strength as a from you and why ⁓ love that I'll just say I just over 4th, July weekend. guy's house I staying at, he had a book called Breath by James Nestor. And I picked it up ⁓ just realized how as society and as individuals, how broken ⁓ our patterns have become and the problems stem from not breathing right. I was just sucked in and it was a 230 page book. I'm not a reader. ⁓ And I finished the following afternoon while I was there.

Brian McMaster: So I said, we have a book called Breath, David Nester. And I picked it up. problems that. either. ⁓

Jeff Hutsell: well.

Scott Schaper: And then Suzanne put it in her Amazon cart and got that to start reading it. But I found it ⁓ literally life-changing. I sleep better. I work out better. I walk better. All by this book. And Brian, think you may have referenced this book a few times ⁓ about nose breathing and breathing, et cetera. But I found it to be great. Breath by James Nestor totally changed my life just in a few short weeks.

Brian McMaster: with a little of a thank you. Thanks. ⁓ reference this book a few times about Great.

Scott Schaper: Brian, I looked at my sleep pattern today. I got seven hours of sleep and than an hour was in deep sleep, which was a record for me.

Brian McMaster: and pride in this. record for me. What people I think I talked about this before on the podcast, but I wear these. They're called hostage tape. But forces you to breathe through your nose at nighttime. And it your sleep scores like crazy. So nasal breathing is this huge. Yeah, we've talked about that before. All right, let's see what ⁓

Jeff Hutsell: I'd kill for that.

Scott Schaper: Big deal. What's on your desk? See him looking around Jeff? This is his MO. What's on my desk?

Jeff Hutsell: It's a memo.

Brian McMaster: Let's do this one today. Ketone IQ. Have you guys heard of this stuff? So this is to me this is like better than coffee. So what I do is I drink one of these shots before I go into a meeting or something like that, but it's basically a shot of ketones it fires up your energy. No jitters, none of that kind of stuff. No caffeine. You can get it with caffeine in it, but I don't have it with caffeine in it. So that's a out to ketone IQ. ⁓

Scott Schaper: No.

Jeff Hutsell: What's in it?

Brian McMaster: It's just basically ketones, which is what your liver makes when you go into ketosis for energy. So it's an energy shot. I mean, it's essentially taking pure ketones into your system. So it's not the cheapest thing on the planet, but it works. And also, I'm plugging right now because I'm trying to get their business. So ⁓ good stuff.

Scott Schaper: Nice.

Jeff Hutsell: Give a small store warehouse on your desk there. Is that what you got?

Brian McMaster: Yeah, I got I'm never at a lack for something on my desk, so. ⁓

Scott Schaper: Remember the old show WKRP? And ⁓ Jump, the station owner, he had all these toys on his desk, Legos, buses, trucks. That's Brian, but with health advice and ⁓ products.

Jeff Hutsell: Yep.

Brian McMaster: and drugs. I want to know which one of us is less Nessman. ⁓

Jeff Hutsell: ahead.

Scott Schaper: Jeff, love the, kind of started a list there of these are the things that change when you go into your next. Number one is deepening relationships, to things that ⁓ don't sense anymore because of this stage. I'd love to into ⁓ a couple more those. I'm gonna keep writing those down. I'll put them in the show notes, but where, ⁓ like I'm five seven years out from my exit. How do I start or how does one of our listeners start thinking about what's next for them?

Brian McMaster: I'm to show you where.

Scott Schaper: there a process that you can ⁓ or is just about awareness? Where do people start?

Brian McMaster: But if there are processes that you can awareness, where do people start?

Jeff Hutsell: hard to get you to change your mind from thinking about the exit. I try, ⁓ you're so very focused on the exit. First of all, I try to make the exit feel less scary.

Brian McMaster: I'm very focused.

Jeff Hutsell: because I would convince you that whatever you thought you needed, you need about one tenth of that amount of money, for example. So it's like, okay, I thought I needed 100 million, 10 million does it. I thought I needed 10, 1 million does it. So I asked very specific questions to get you to focus on that life. You know, I said, for example, if you sold your company, you don't really need to be saving 20 % of your income anymore.

Scott Schaper: Yeah.

Jeff Hutsell: Because that purpose is now fulfilled and can begin using that asset for something else. So that's one is to try to make them less focused on the exit. And then it's really starting to these habits. One about the relationships. I mean, ⁓ think you guys can see how hard I work on trying to get you guys to at least love the people in your own group. I work really hard because you're not gonna do that. And if I don't force it, know, little bits and pieces, it will happen. The second one, which may surprise you a bit, kind of surprises me. I've gone to church my whole life, but my spirituality is rocketing now. I'm actually using spirituality as a means of understanding why people are going through what they go through and why I went through what I went through because there's nothing you guys go through. haven't. Same thing. But nobody was there to tell me that you got to put it in the scope of, your entire life is not even spec. mean, calm the fuck down, right? You don't need to be worried about everything like it's the end of the world. Spirituality really helps with that, right?

Brian McMaster: Nobody was there to tell me.

Jeff Hutsell: you want to go down biblical studies like Brian does, if you just want to go down being more, consider Scott a very spiritual person. We talk about that stuff in our groups, right? We don't, almost much as we talk about work and business. It's why does this matter so much? Where are we going? What's the entire point of doing this all together? ⁓ The only thing I try to get you guys to learn.

Scott Schaper: Yeah.

Jeff Hutsell: and Vistage does a great job of doing that. You need to learn how to be a mentor and or teacher because we've been doers for so long. And the number one way that I do it? Hopefully you'd get this answer, right? But it's teaching you to ask questions. Quit ⁓ everything. Start asking things. Be curious. Be curious because a mentor is really someone who just basically, I where I'm going. It's like a good attorney, but I tell you where to go. I use questions to get you there so maybe it will run to the same spot.

Scott Schaper: Mm-hmm.

Jeff Hutsell: And I think the other thing is, which I'm not doing yet, but someday have to, it's called accept decline with grace. That's a very deep statement. it's like, there'll come a time when I can't do what I can do now. Mentally, physically, all the rest of it. It's like, get comfortable with ⁓

Scott Schaper: Mm-hmm.

Jeff Hutsell: both that. I mean, I'm going through a big thing right now next spring we're planning the family's planning a trip out to Big Bear to go skiing. I'm literally going over in my head should I shouldn't I? Certainly I'll go but know knee replacement it's like ⁓ I should I don't want to say I can't but I might say I won't. Make

Scott Schaper: Yeah.

Brian McMaster: was just at a in Ireland, which both know about, and one of biggest things there was when it becomes less me and more about them, then the world will deliver to you everything you could ever possibly want. And I think that's exactly what you're saying, Jeff, is you've made that transition point. And it's about us now, that's where you're getting your reward from. And I'm actually, even though I'm not in a position where I want to sell my business, unless somebody came and said, hey, I'm going to write a big check or something along those lines, I'm at that point as well. That's why I went. And Jeff, you and I talked about this, and I'm sure Scott, you and I talked about this too. It's why I went. It's like, as soon as I lost my parents, it was like, what's the purpose in all this? What am I doing all this for? And I'm starting to look at that as, you know, it's less about doing. And what you just commented on, too, accepting decline with grace, you know, and commenting on my faith, too, that's the other place that I'm at. It's like, you know, I have my beliefs and in the end we win. That's how I look at it. So if I get another day on this planet, I'm happy to have that day. So, know, just couple of comments. ⁓ I to, the biggest burning question I wanted to ask Jeff was, what was one of the biggest turning points in your life or one of the most moments in your life that kind ⁓ of you turned in this direction or ⁓ just general, was one of the biggest defining moments of your life?

Jeff Hutsell: Well, it didn't send me in this direction, but it taught me that achievement is limited and not up to me. I was the CEO of Inesco ⁓ after having been there for 20 years, ⁓ ⁓ of as the CEO or president, the board said we're going a different direction. And I had never ever done anything but escalate my entire life. Three, four different companies never a setback, never had a lateral. And so ⁓ I took momentary. Well, that's it. It's.

Scott Schaper: Hmm.

Jeff Hutsell: There is no way to go after that, right? And I didn't have anybody like a Vistage Coach to kind of say, it's a good thing you're out of that piece of shit. mean, the whole industry's thinking, you know, look at how they've treated you. All the stuff that I would say to you guys. not as trying to make you feel better, but making you open your eyes and see it's like when you're in the middle of something that if are willing to let you go, it must not be a good mutual experience at all, including me. I fire them, they fired me, but I could have fired them if I had some place else to go. So it's somebody needed to me see that. So Jeff, how many times do we get with guys in our group and go, ⁓ get out of We've done that a We don't say fire people. ⁓

Brian McMaster: Thank

Jeff Hutsell: to say, find yourself, find something better to do. So the turning point is when you realize there's not a straight line for me. There is no straight line and on career ⁓ three. I would never have had my own company had happened and I certainly wouldn't be a Vistage Chair had that never happened. We look it all makes sense and you're filled with gratitude for every piece of shit that happens to you. You should be.

Scott Schaper: Hmm.

Brian McMaster: Yeah, absolutely.

Scott Schaper: Every time there's always the stereotypical to someone that just retired and they their relationship with their spouse changes mainly because they're now present for those 50 hours that they weren't before. You're out and about doing lots of mentoring, grouping and one-on-ones. So that is probably eaten up. But how has your relationship with Sarah changed in the decade of Vistaging?

Jeff Hutsell: What's fascinating is she knows what I'm doing. For 30 years, if does Jeff do? She would say some kind of work. Never. We never talked about it. There was no sharing. There was no nothing. As you guys know, she puts together two or three of the events we do every year. She's she's she knows most of you people that if you've been there five years, Sarah, Sarah knows you. And like, it's just you know, because, you know, I'm sitting there watching TV, phones ringing, she so is that Brian Chase? You know, the different people call us for. ⁓ Right.

Scott Schaper: It's Scott chasing Brian.

Jeff Hutsell: what what I discovered in this book really helped me is I have not relied on her or leaned on her one ounce more. We have a 49 year relationship that need to change. So if I would have come in and say, I'm now ready for a change, Sarah. She didn't ask for the change, know, because her love language is service, ⁓ it's for me to find stuff to help service her with because she does everything, right? So when I can do that, it's ⁓ not much that she needs me for that. Our love isn't related anything, but we're happy where are. Now it's grandkid-based. So she and I... are spending much more of our time with grandchildren. more. Travel, And only thing that we've really hooked into, like some people, a couple starts playing golf. All our lives, we love New York City, we've always loved And now, as you three times a year we go and watch six plays. I don't think anybody sees 18 plays on Broadway every year. the last 10 years, we do. like some people that go to concerts all the time. We found that one thing and enough. That's plenty.

Scott Schaper: I love that idea. You have said to me a dozen times that how is it that you can both step away and maintain the platform that you've built? when you first started saying that kind of phraseology about that platform, that took me a while to sink in. What do you really mean by that? And do you use that language with everybody in Vistage?

Brian McMaster: said to It would.

Jeff Hutsell: Oh, yes, I try to, I try to help them self identify, you know, what's your superpower? What is it you're really good at? Scott is really good at conceptualizing a tactical and strategic means of attacking something. Most of them I don't believe in. And I give you a bunch of shit about whether they'll work or not. But my respect is that it's like from soup to nuts.

Brian McMaster: Ha!

Jeff Hutsell: But he then, I don't hear about it for a while and I go, whatever happened today? said, well, the team's doing it. So your platform is very repeatable because most people are looking for creativity in terms of what are we supposed to be working on?

Scott Schaper: Ahem.

Jeff Hutsell: Not how are we working on, who's doing what, not details and stuff. It's no, we're going after the construction arm or with Brian, mean, nothing could feel better when he just gets to the top of the roof and said, health products, right? I'm heading down road towards, we're gonna be the distribution partner for all health products. And you believe that good for mankind, ⁓ the kind of people come to work there will find that an appealing thing to do.

Brian McMaster: Right.

Jeff Hutsell: Scott's helping create business for people who don't know how to create business, they're doing absolutely mission critical work for the world. I every little thing in our house that goes wrong, Scott's trying to help them help us find the right people to come in and fix that. So it's like, once you know what your platform is, my platform is I can see the truth that fast.

Brian McMaster: Like, what you know is...

Jeff Hutsell: And I'll just play it right back and it's like, okay, you're hiding from this. are you hiding from that? You're feeling this. Why you not doing anything about that? Because the that always asked all my life, I've always been very curious and I'm a great, I love to connect things. I connections are everything. this, with this, with it's like, okay. That's what's going on here. Can we talk about that? Can we agree that that's what we should be talking about? I don't want talk about that. I want to talk about this. And that's my platform. So we all need to find our platform. Because then you can do that till you're dead. We can never stop doing that. Like I guys, I might have told you guys once, the greatest compliment I can ever be paid is when one of my adult children say, hey,

Scott Schaper: Yeah.

Jeff Hutsell: My friend Kelly lost her job and she's really lost. I asked if you'd be willing to vistage her it's verb now ⁓ and of friends three generations away from me will call up and say, help. That's a feeling. when your platform is kind of well known.

Scott Schaper: Nice. Brian, what's your next tip?

Brian McMaster: That's it. you know, I Jeff, when when I think about how you've mentored me over over the what are we going on seven years now? ⁓ I go back to first of all, you've made me curious. I wasn't curious before I thought there was a direction I thought there was a way I thought there was always a story. But

Jeff Hutsell: Yep.

Brian McMaster: I'm interested in the challenges that you face with. there ever anybody, is there ever anybody that is not changeable, doesn't change, somebody that you've not had success with? I mean, you don't have to name names, but, and I'm just curious how you deal with that because, mean, you know, we see you in all your glory when we meet once a month and when we do our one-to-ones, but, you know, we don't necessarily see the dark side of things either, and I know there is one, so.

Jeff Hutsell: Sure. Absolutely. ⁓

Brian McMaster: It's like, you know, speak to them.

Jeff Hutsell: I wouldn't call it dark, I call it frustrating, know, because whenever you... Whenever I have to resort to trying to change somebody, go against my own advice. Because I begin to get directive. I begin to get louder. I begin to get more pointed with And then, you know, it's like, what are we doing? You know, what is this all about? So what I do try to find, OK, I'm perfectly capable of helping you tactically then. If you're a tactical person that doesn't want to go above this level, mean, first of all, you can quit. but they love the group, they're learning something, they need something, but they can't go here. play this game. Sometimes kind of fun. It's exhausting to have five hour and a half one-to-ones in a day that's all right here. Holy shit. come home I can't talk because I'm just exhausted. So to get somebody that's talking about, okay, what kind of price increase can we do? It's like, let's go. ⁓

Scott Schaper: Hmm. Yeah. Talk about meeting people where they are. That's that.

Brian McMaster: Thank

Jeff Hutsell: You have to, right? sometimes you're there as well.

Scott Schaper: So in all these sessions, go two parts. What robs you of the energy you kind of talked about, not in a bad way. ⁓ gives you the most energy just talking to all these companies?

Brian McMaster: Thank

Jeff Hutsell: Yeah.

Scott Schaper: Rob's maybe an unfair word, but.

Jeff Hutsell: Yeah, wears me out is actually the valuable the session is, the more exhausting it is. My energy is depleted. ⁓ Yeah, I'm not feeling bad about it. I'm not mad. I'm not resentful, but I'm just like, fuck. It's like a retreat, a two-day retreat. It's like...

Scott Schaper: You're giving.

Jeff Hutsell: the things we get, the places we go, the things that we're talking about. Plus you're, you're hurting 20 maniacs, you know, through some journey of some sort. And it's just exhausting and emotional. Um, the absolute greatest takeaway that I get from any kind of a meeting is when I come home and show Sarah, it's like, that. And you can imagine what it is. You know, it's how I've just come from a one-to-one and someone says, you know, You walked out blah, blah, blah, blah. know, my life changed or something helped, or ⁓ been stuck there for a long time. ⁓ that, that paycheck is just unbelievable. It happens, happens often. And it's very exciting and

Scott Schaper: Mm. Yeah. That's awesome. You know, one thing that in business, meeting roofers, property managers, all these, and I love learning about a brand new thing I never knew about, you some sort of solar roofing or something technical. ⁓ And I'm like, man, I know the curtain has been lifted on that industry for me. And you, mean, the businesses have, I mean, from manufacturing to frozen dough to

Jeff Hutsell: It's It's so cool.

Scott Schaper: What have been some of the ⁓ ones that you've, I mean, the insurance for weather types events, I how cool is that? But what, and just a couple personal ⁓ stories just fascinating businesses that you've learned about.

Brian McMaster: in some of the...

Jeff Hutsell: Unbelievable.

Brian McMaster: maybe that's.

Jeff Hutsell: Well, think one of the ones I found fascinating and so curious about was the t-shirt. was in Kansas City, called Charlie Hustle. the business, right? And the that made them famous was a solid color with a heart and the word K and C on it. It's like the Big Apple. ⁓ It reminds of that from way back in the 70s. And from that came an entire business from somebody that has no idea what a business is, how to run it, what to do, put this one thing together and then started gathering knowledge, experience, abilities. And we end We cobble together these businesses from nothing. Patrick Montgomery is another one. He out of the military ⁓ and wants sell Wagyu beef Kansas City. What's beef and how's work and what's going on? When I see the people and things and it's a... going to be consumer products for me, because that's my life, right? You'll both of those were. ⁓ I've that. And it's funny, ⁓ of the things, the fewest been consumer products. I thought I'd find myself evaluating consumer products all the time, because that's why people would come to me. But it's like, no, not the reason. But I love the of anybody that starts with a product idea and...

Scott Schaper: Hehe.

Jeff Hutsell: had to discover, okay, right now I'm a, like Chase, for example, became a designer, salesperson, a marketing person, a advertising person, a personality, a manufacturer, and a shipper. And I said, why? Pick one of those things. Do that because there are people better at every other one of those things.

Brian McMaster: You know, other.

Jeff Hutsell: Way too much, way too much, unnecessarily.

Brian McMaster: The other thing that that reminds me of is the time, Jeff, that you said, you know, when we went through the whole COVID situation, you know, you see a lot of these small companies and a lot of these people that are creating these opportunities, but small business is what makes the world go round. And, and, know, you have the opportunity to work with those people and those products and those innovators and those guys that say, Hey, no matter what rules change, we're gonna follow the rules and we're gonna figure out how to make things happen. I always enjoyed those conversations because it's necessarily about the product, but it's about the people sometimes.

Jeff Hutsell: Well, the reason you enjoyed it is because everybody likes to know the why. When really understand the why, it's like, why does Jeff do all this? It's like, well. Every small business I could try to make successful will make America better. We'll feed more families, we'll create communities, we'll just everything. Everything boils down to people a living doing something and there's gotta be leaders. ⁓ There's be people that move in there and just figure it out and get stuff done. And I it so much because... You guys don't need anything. I grew up in big business. Everybody wanted more. wanted a bigger job, bigger title, bigger office, bigger ⁓ fucking everything. this, back my book again, he gave me an equation. Satisfaction equals what you divided by what you So what you want is zero, then you have is infinitely creating satisfaction. If everything, if you think you've got nothing your desires are everything, you're never gonna be anywhere near satisfied, much less happy, ⁓ less joyful. That's of what they said, you know, start getting rid of stuff, Jeff. Stop owning businesses, stop owning real estate, stop anything where you need, you know, it's like, no, your needs, if ⁓ you can down to zero needs, you're going to be happy. The goal should be fewer things that I need. because think that's ⁓

Brian McMaster: powerful.

Scott Schaper: Have you found this everybody's story and everybody's exit and everybody's journey is different, but have you found any age related like someone who gets the big paycheck at, you know, 35 as opposed to 65. Have you noticed that they have, you know, that's a long window of, they going into another career immediately? Are they buying something else?

Jeff Hutsell: Well, the youngsters are, because remember, we're doing small business. So I'm not getting tech 35 year old billionaires. I'm getting manufacturing 35 year old, $3 million cash people. They're not stupid. does not last forever. they're anxious to get into something else because the one they started might not have been the one they loved. Everybody, they're young enough to keep moving towards the ones they really wanted to do.

Scott Schaper: Hehe. Mm-hmm. Right.

Jeff Hutsell: I watch Mike, he's good example. He ⁓ did select insulation as his work, but this ⁓ assets and estate seems to be ⁓ the thing. And the insulation, never have had the chance to go do this. ⁓

Scott Schaper: Yeah, that kind of also I was thinking Travis came to mind. kind of going to I like his mentorship second where he's helping businesses with capital and a lot of advice.

Brian McMaster: he's with capital and ⁓ nice

Jeff Hutsell: Yeah. He has gone full mentor at a quite young age. I mean, I have a great deal of respect for him. He's very knowledgeable. got there very, he got there, wherever there is very, very quickly really quickly glommed onto the give, give, give, give, give with no expectation of return. He's unique. But on the right path. think he's going to continue to be happier and and happy and He doesn't need stuff he used to ⁓ he used need. ⁓

Scott Schaper: Yeah, that's amazing. know, every conversation I have with him, I walk away just ⁓ little bit, one tenth of IQ point higher. I just feel so much smarter.

Jeff Hutsell: Yeah,

Scott Schaper: Well, we're coming up on 45 minutes. These things tend to go fast. We always wrap up with what we want our to do in the next couple of weeks, in the next week. Like, go take an action. ⁓ we just kind of go around the room here and kind of come up with that challenge for our listeners. Brian, I'm just going to put you on the spot and say you go first with some challenge regarding what's next.

Brian McMaster: next week. Take good action. Well, this one's easy. know, ⁓ you and I talk about this in one-to-ones, and I never hesitate to tell you, at least I hope I don't, how much I appreciate you. You know, for me, the is get a coach. Get a mentor, get coach. Someone that you can trust and that's gonna ⁓ not tell you what you hear, because Jeff doesn't tell me what I wanna hear. He tells me. He tells me what he thinks and, you know, I think you need that kind of tough love. And I think the thing to remember is you don't need to go in alone. We have we have other CEOs groups, we have coaches like Jeff. I think having a coach a mentor is just huge. You're not alone in this. And lots of times entrepreneurs feel alone. So that would be my challenge. ⁓

Scott Schaper: Yeah. I'm going to, I'll go real quick. I'm going to flip that one directly on its head. Cause I love that. I'm going to say ⁓ don't need to, you don't need to wait to retirement to give away or be a mentor. We're really We're really smart people with decades of, with decades of, of crap under our belt. ⁓ And it's helpful to find a really young business and just start mentoring them along the way.

Brian McMaster: are really smart people decades of with decades of crap under our belt and it's really helpful to find ⁓ young business.

Scott Schaper: And I love doing that. It's something that I find very fun rewarding. So be a mentor. Go find a program you can help. Even people in ⁓ my Vistage group, I'm always shocked that people come to me, how did that work out for you? How did you do that? I find immensely gratifying to know that. so, I don't know, ⁓ for me, I do thank you, but why do I leave all my meetings more pissed off than when I went in there? That tough love is making me so mad.

Brian McMaster: You may go find it.

Jeff Hutsell: Ha

Scott Schaper: And then a couple days later, I'm like, oh yeah, he was right about that.

Jeff Hutsell: Don't forget my favorite word. I approach you with carefrontation. Carefrontation.

Scott Schaper: Jeff, what advice do you want to tell our listeners to go do this week?

Jeff Hutsell: You guys covered the best part, so I'm going to go one deeper for a little bit longer. Who do you need to rekindle a deep relationship with? You cannot, at my age, I can't go rekindle brand new deep in relationships, but I certainly, we rallied around a member, I had about a 12 man group in high school. All 12 of us. have ended up owning a company. All 12 of us have marriages that have lasted over 40 years. All 12 of us have had kids. We're all over the country and everything, but it's like, we kind of drifted apart and then one of the folks got cancer, is recovering, thank God, but we all kind of got together and we kind of said, what the fuck? We lived every minute together. and say, and it's true, the minute you get back together, we're friends again. But it's like the effort needs to be made right now that says there'll come a time when about half of them don't work anymore. I can tell they would like to get together a lot more. And people me are not. able to accommodate that, we need to be accommodating that more. So start the deepening relationships now by going backwards and picking up the ones that meant so much to you in your prior life. feels great.

Scott Schaper: That's amazing. think we can leave it at that. Jeff Hutzel, can't wait to meet. I think we got lunch tomorrow. I'm lucky. I get two days of Jeff one week. So that's awesome. ⁓ you making time for us. And I appreciate everything you do, all your words and your wisdom. It goes beyond me and really appreciate that. Thanks coming on. And Brian, I'll see you a couple of weeks. You guys hang out for one second.

Jeff Hutsell: We do. We're good.

Brian McMaster: appreciate that. See in a couple of weeks. See you guys hang out for one second. All right, thanks.